Group met after the Area Board to discuss future actions
Last week, we presented the results of the three People’s Assemblies we held over the summer and the response was on the whole, positive. We seem to have the prospect of actual progress now and the group met to discuss next steps.
The results from our Assemblies will be part of the national response which will be taking place on 20 – 22 of this month in London. Three people will be present from Salisbury.
We discussed what to do next and the major exercise is the support we can offer to the ‘champions’ whom we hope will lead on the five top wishes coming out of the Assemblies. One idea was to try and ‘match’ a councillor to a champion to try and make sure the ideas don’t get forgotten or sidelined.
One of the first things we will be doing is organising a meeting of all the champions to plan the next stages and to discuss what offers of help and support they might need. It was emphasised in the meeting that ours is a supporting role but maybe also guiding in some cases.
We also discussed our own future and the need to consider a more formal structure for SDA: at present we have none. We may opt for a Company Limited by Guarantee or a Community Interest Company and this will be looked into. It will help with the ‘credibility’ issue. We need to be clear about our objectives.
We looked in general terms about trying to involve others including going into schools if at all possible.
The idea of a fresh assembly was discussed and it was decided to leave it until the Spring largely because of the amount of time and effort needed to make them a success. One suggestion was for a junior assembly – we’ll see.
Next meeting is on 15th July at the Ox Row Inn starting at 6:15.
If you are not a member or supporter of SDA, have you thought of joining us? Best thing is to make yourself know at the Democracy Café the next one this is this Saturday 12th in the Library starting at 10:00. Or put a message below. You’d be welcome.
The Alliance was able to report to the Salisbury Area Board on 3 July following the three successful People’s Assemblies we ran in the City. The response was on the whole positive and we did feel that we have made some progress in our quest to improve the manner in which decisions are made in the local political sphere. We are grateful to Karen Linaker for her help in arranging for our presentation.
Mark Potts presented the results of the three assemblies noting that around a 100 people attended at least one of the meetings and some all three. It demonstrated a keen interest by people who were concerned and interested in the future of the City and wanted to be involved in what happened.
There were two main types of consultation: DAD and EDD he said. They stood for Decide – Announce – Defend and, Engage – Deliberate – Decide. Unfortunately, there had been a tendency towards the former where people felt proposals had all been decided and their involvement was just a formality. The Alliance was naturally enough, keener on the second approach.
The top five
After the three meetings the top five issues emerged. They were:
Housing and issues around quality and affordability
Traffic and transport
A Community Hub
An Environment Centre
A college for the performing arts
A full description of these and a brief report of the final assembly, can be found on this link.
Mark said that present in the room, were the five ‘champions’ for each of these ideas and he suggested the next step is some kind of engagement with councillors and others. He mentioned the idea of citizen’s juries, another idea being promoted by SDA, which has been successfully used to tackle more complex problems. It was true they cost money but the cost of getting these things wrong needs also to be considered. They have the advantage of engaging experts into the debate and engaging a cross section of citizens in the process.
Responses
In response to Mark’s presentation, councillors had some questions and comments.
Cllr Sven Hocking asked how will those who took part in this event or SDA help councillors find the budget. Mark replied that it was not the role of SDA to try and manage the council’s budget. We were only seeking to submit ideas.
Cllr Ricky Rogers said on the housing issue, it was government who decide. Developers were in a strong position he said. This was a matter which came up in our debates and is a fair point.
Cllr Ed Rimmer was more sceptical. He thought it better for people to engage in the existing system. He questioned whether the [five priorities] reflected the wishes of the wider community. Is there not a risk that what is proposed subverts the [electoral] system we have? After all, the councillors here have been voted in to represent people. How can SDA demonstrate political balance?
In replying Mark said we were not suggesting our method was better. He stressed people had given up their time. The point was our method was deliberative.
Cllr John Wells said he had attended one of the sessions. He suggested some of the ideas should be built into the things they are engaged in already.
There followed a general debate in which it was stressed that the process was about helping the councillors do their job. It was agreed that better engagement was wanted and was a good idea.
Cllr Paul Sample (Chair) said the work was opportune. There was a review of the Area Boards underway and he welcomed the ideas and energy put in. “Keep doing what you’re doing – it’s not wasted!”
Comment
After the work put into organising and running the three assemblies, we were encouraged with the overall response we received. There does seem to be a change of attitude among the majority of councillors that admits they do need input from organised events of this kind.
It is true that councillors (and members of parliament) are voted in to run things but the question is how many of the public would have read their manifestos before doing so? How do you accommodate changing circumstances? Are people only to have a say every 4 or five years? As new problems or opportunities arise is it not best to tap into any local expertise?
The three sessions demonstrated the degree of enthusiasm and commitment local people had. The point surely was to bottle some of this enthusiasm and use it to change or improve things. Trust in politics is at a very low ebb. People feel ignored and left out. This kind of deliberative approach would surely put a small dent in that thinking.
The future
We shall be meeting soon to consider next steps and there will be a post here so subscribe if you want to remain in touch. Why not join us? We need more people who want to play a role in local affairs. As we have debated in several of our Democracy Café meetings (next one on Saturday July 12th, 10:00 in the Library finishing at noon), the role of parties in the local political scene is doubted by many and is seen as an irrelevance. We are not a political party and our aim is to improve how things are run.
A smaller group than usual assembled at the Library for this month’s Café, but the discussion was still diverse and considered. The first topic chosen was “What are the costs and benefits of AI?”
One member noted that he had written an article back in 2016 on the subject and, rereading it, had found it surprisingly relevant. A review of the piece had some good recommendations. Most members were of the view that AI had great benefits in terms of saving time on processing but were concerned about regulation. A dissenting member observed that it was too late for such concerns, as AI had developed way beyond the ability of humans to control it – into the level of “general intelligence”.
Apocalyptic visions aside, the debate was generally about the possible effects of using the power of AI to increase productivity but remove jobs. Some found ChatGPT useful, particularly for scientific research; but mistakes can occur, and there were concerns about whether AI could overcome this.
At a more philosophical level, it was felt that AI would remove free will, or at least lead a trend away from individualism. The implications for art were considered.
On regulation, it was questioned whether AI could regulate itself; the more advanced view was that AI would be concerned with its own survival and would evade regulatory interference. This led on to a discussion of machine consciousness and thus human consciousness and how far we understand either. Complex questions, but a stimulating debate.
The second topic for discussion was “Should we increase defence spending to 3% of the total?”
The consensus was that more spending on weaponry was pointless but the defence of the realm was still important. The reason for the proposed increase was questioned, particularly the demand from the US that Europe as a whole should take on more of the burden. Some agreed that we have had defence on the cheap. There was also some debate about the UK’s role, bearing in mind that we have not always been able to demonstrate that we are a major power nor have much influence in the major conflicts. Our role as a seller of arms was also questioned. It was generally felt that the Strategic Defence Review was not a useful contribution to the debate.
Andrew Hemming
NEWS
For those of you who came to one or more of the People’s Assemblies, we are pleased to report that we will be able to present the results at a meeting of an Area Board early in July. This could be a big step forward for the SDA.
Have you thought about joining us? We are working to bring a better way of doing politics in the area and we need supporters. It is free.
UPDATE: there is an interview with Mark Potts on That’s TV and the link is here (6 June)
The third of the assemblies was held on Sunday 1st and 42 took part to discuss the suggestions put forward by the previous two. There was earnest debate on all the tables and there were some who were passionate about their topic or what was important to them. We ended up with our top five and these will go forward to contribute to the national debate. We hope some of those who volunteered to go to London will be able to do so to carry the message forward.
It occurred to me as the afternoon wore on listening to the debates on each of the tables, that where else is there for this kind of debate? Our election process – national or local – will consist of the parties telling you of their plans for the country or the area. You don’t get to debate them unless you are a member of one of the parties and even then, policy is often imposed from on high. If you go to a hustings, as I did last year, the candidates have their say and one or two from the audience get to ask a question, but there is no debate in any meaningful sense of the term. It’s all very ‘top down’ with non party members – the vast majority – being passive recipients of the supposed wisdom of our political masters.
Yet in the three assemblies, there were six hours of vigorous debate by a wide range of people. A few came more than once but the majority were first timers. Things didn’t quite go to plan as the last event was meant to be a game of two halves: each group to select their top five and then in the second half, to decide on the final five having heard what the other’s thought. Well, we more or less decided on the top five after the first session so the debate switched to suggesting which one or two topics were the most important.
What are the top five you are eager to discover:
1. Housing
Provide more good quality and low energy consuming homes, which are genuinely affordable and some of which will be in public ownership. Ensure that developers provide such homes, fully meeting their planning obligations and including the provision of appropriate and agreed infra-structure. [this is a combination of the various individual suggestions into one piece of text].
2. Transport
Produce and implement a traffic plan for the city with youth advocacy, that includes low emission zones, car free zones, people friendly routes, promotes active travel, considers 15-minute communities and free or cheap bus travel, especially for under 21s.
3. A Community Hub
Create a community hub for young people and families including 3G sports pitches and activities including life skills.
4. An Environmental Centre
Create an environmental centre which provides Salisbury’s residents with information on sustainable homes, travel and living. A permanent, free home will allow Ecohub to provide a better information and advice service to local residents.
Residents and the environment would benefit from this service as sustainable homes and transport save money while reducing greenhouse gases.
5. A College for Performing Arts in Salisbury.
Power
One of the topics which arose in several debates and in discussions afterwards, was the matter of where the power lies and who is in a position to deliver on any of these. If we take housing for example, why do we not have more affordable homes? Why are new houses going up around Salisbury and elsewhere, the majority of which do not have solar panels and are not built to zero emission standards? Why are we building on flood plains? Why are developers able to promise affordable homes at the planning application stage then amazingly, discover that once on site they cannot afford to actually provide them? These were all things discussed during our three sessions. It is likely that most involved at the local level – officers and councillors – are well aware of these problems yet are largely powerless to do anything about them. It’s about where power lies.
The government has decided that we need houses – lots of them. They have also stated that one of the major problems is the planning system (full disclosure: I am a Member of the Royal Town Planning Institute, now retired). Reform the system they claim and Hey Presto! masses of houses will appear to solve the problem. There are one or two snags though. Firstly, the developers already have 2 or more years of land with planning permissions in the bag but are not building on them. Some people have alleged it is because land is an appreciating asset so it can sit on the balance sheet steadily getting more valuable. It is also alleged that the big builders decide among themselves where to build so as not to depress prices by all building in the same vicinity. To build houses you need services: boring things like drains, a supply of fresh water, electricity, roads and somewhere to send the err, foul water. If local planning committees point some of these issues out, and maybe turn down the application for this or other reasons, the developer can appeal knowing they will get a favourable hearing. The Minister might also call it in and decide for himself.
So you can ‘reform’ (=weaken) the system and you will get more houses but they will be poorly insulated, packed in together, and without solar panels. Oh and you can kiss goodbye to any affordable homes.
But back to the assemblies which demonstrated that this is a matter of great concern to people. They are unhappy at seeing huge estates appearing with no doctor’s surgery, sometimes no shop or community space – just rows of lookalike houses. They think it ludicrous that houses should be built on land susceptible to flooding. One of the issues today with our febrile political system is the wide dissatisfaction people have with it. They feel marginalised. They feel not listened to. They say things like ‘they’re all the same’ which is not true but widely believed.
So maybe this exercise is a small contribution to allowing people more say in their affairs. It has revealed a thirst by people to have their say, not just tick a box at an election and then be forgotten.
What next?
We will be contributing to the national event and locally, we want to follow through with the City and Wiltshire Councils. One of our goals is a citizen’s assembly a place where policy matters of moment can be discussed involving experts and local people. We want to move away from the process where people are invited to comment on policies more or less agreed anyway, a kind of tokenism.
Peter Curbishley
The next Democracy Café is on Saturday 14 June starting at 10:00 in the Central Library.
The third People’s Assembly was held today and we were delighted with the turnout of 42 (excluding the team so 50 altogether). There is always the worry when you run projects of this nature that come the day you’re faced with an empty room.
There was eager debate and we were particularly pleased to welcome several local councillors. This is just an interim post and we will be putting up a more detailed one after our ‘wash-up’ team meeting tomorrow (Monday).
It is clear however from the three sessions is that there is an appetite for debate and an eagerness to contribute to what should happen to Salisbury. We have been encouraged by the exercise and encouraged to follow up with other similar ideas.
People in the Park is an annual event which takes place in Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury and this year’s was very well attended. A sunny day people were out in numbers throughout the event. SDA had a stand there focusing particularly on the People’s Assemblies the third and final one of which takes place on June 1st at the Football Club.
We had a great deal of interest in the chart we displayed which had the top ten things people wanted to see changed in Salisbury. You can see from the chart that a lot of stickers were attached to the various ideas by visitors to our stand. There does seem to be a hunger for involvement by people who sometimes feel left out or marginalised by the existing political system. Perhaps it is one of the reason Reform did so well in the recent elections – winning many seats in Wiltshire for example – because people’s concerns do not find their way into the mainstream party’s thinking. Not always fair of course and it remains to be seen how well Reform actually performs now it has a bigger presence in the political firmament.
Among the ten top suggestions, several concerned housing where people said they wanted more affordable houses and flats. They were also concerned at developers not meeting their planning obligations, often claiming as Shelter notes, that once on site they carry out viability assessments which show – amazingly – that they cannot build all the affordable units they promised.
We also had more people sign up for our third People’s Assembly on June 1st including a number of local councillors. There are still spaces and if you are interested please contact Mark Potts mapotts53@gmail.com or leave a note here. See a report on the second assembly.
Thanks to SDA members Mike, Andrew and Mark who manned the stand. Main picture below shows the large number of spots on the options chart. Mark and Andrew pictured.
Our next Democracy Café takes place in the Library on Saturday 14 June. Previous write ups of these are elsewhere on this site.
We shall have a stall in this years People in the Park event in Elizabeth Gardens, Salisbury today Saturday 17th May from about 10:00 for the rest of the day. We will have the results of the first two People’s Assembly meetings on display so if you wish to contribute you can.
The final meeting will be on June 1st at the Football Club and you are welcome to attend. The aim is to whittle the ten current suggestions down to 5. It starts at 14:00. If you would like to come please contact mapotts53@gmail.com or of course let us know at the People in the Park event.
The Assembly received many positive responses and was a success
April 2025
The second People’s Assembly was held last Sunday (13th April) and although there were fewer people in attendance, the changes we made meant it worked well. The responses from attendees were uniformly positive. The venue was larger and better appointed (St Gregory’s Hall) and the additional space meant people could move around more freely and there was less ‘noise’ interruption from neighbouring tables.
A large number of problems were put forward and many focused, in one way or another, around housing, transport and community services. Following the experience and feedback from the first meeting, we made changes to the timings which gave more time to debate, and introduced Post It notes for the first half which helped enormously. Indeed, participants responded well to the revised arrangements. Comments included several who said ‘well organised’, others said how it was ‘enjoyable’ how the discussions were ‘respectful’ and the solutions suggested were ‘thoughtful’. They liked the venue and praised the facilitation and how the discussions were mediated.
It was clear people enjoyed the experience. There is a desire to take part in local politics and for their voices to be heard. But too often, people are presented with party politics and their views are overlooked or ignored.
The five solutions
More genuinely affordable housing was needed particularly council built properties. A familiar issue and which is subject to a lot of political debate. The planning system comes in for criticism all too frequently, although not in this instance.
The need for an Environmental Centre. At present the Salisbury EcoHub has a presence in the market place on a Tuesday and does much to inform people about environmental issues and the climate crisis. There is need of a permanent location for this vitally important activity.
Free or low-cost transport for young people. Presently, it is the older members of our society who enjoy free transport but there is also a need for the young. The cost of travel to college/school can be prohibitive for some and can affect where they decide to go.
A community hub for young people and families including 3G pitches and activities.
Finally, a call for stricture measures to ensure developers build good quality and safe homes. This is similar to one of the results of the first Assembly where there was a demand for developers to meet their planning obligations.
The third Assembly will take place at the Salisbury Football Stadium on June 1st starting at 2pm and finishing soon after 4pm. It is free to attend but there is an opportunity to make a contribution to our costs. To secure a space please email Mapotts53@gmail.com.
Care to join us? If you have an interest in local democracy and would like to help us promote ideas such as Citizen’s Juries, you would be very welcome. SDA runs the Democracy cafes which are held on the second Saturday of every month.
Write – up soon. The last Democracy Café was this morning Saturday, 12 April starting at 10:00 as usual and finishing at noon. In Salisbury Library, upstairs (there is a lift). Lots to discuss with the momentous events following Trump’s election and the imposition of tariffs which have shaken the world order. What should our relations with the US be now? Are they ‘friends’ anymore? There will be many attending on Saturday or reading this who have links over the pond: I can think of many in my family circle who are living/working in the US. Should we impose tariffs?
And what about Europe and the dreaded ‘B’ word no one dare mention not least in the Labour party. Should we be thinking of a closer … no, no, don’t go there – too terrifying a thought.
You see summaries of previous cafes on this site and the last one here.
Local elections are coming up and although they are ‘local’, many will use them to express a view of the government. What should the issues be?
Which brings me neatly to the second People’sAssembly taking place on Sunday 13April (yes the day after – we are gluttons for punishment) at the St Gregory’s Hall in St G’s Avenue (off the Wilton Road, by snaky bridge). Attendance is looking good but there may still be places so contact mappots53@gmail.com if you would like to come. Starts at 2pm and finishes after 4. Free with a parting collection. See a report on the first Assembly. There was also a report in the Salisbury Journal.
Salisbury Democracy Alliance 